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Adhesive for bonding Kydex
09-21-2012, 09:37 AM
Post: #1
Adhesive for bonding Kydex
Hello,

I've been researching this Kydex material for some time. I am looking for a sheet plastic that can be used to make rally-style mud flaps for cars. I am the Super Moderator over on CruzeTalk.com, and we don't yet have any vendors making any mudflaps for our RS series vehicles, so I wanted to provide our users with something that will allow them to protect their paint while driving in the Midwest this winter.

My thought originally came to Kydex, and I haven't done much research past that. I'm looking for something with a decent shatter resistance when cold (single digits).

My idea or thought process was to purchase Kydex in sheets at .08" thick, and "sandwich" them together with an adhesive. From my understanding of manufacturing, using an adhesive to bond the two would allow increased strength as well as increasing impact and shatter resistance from rocks that may get kicked up by the tires.

I'd like to find an adhesive that can preferably be purchased locally (Ace, Lowe's, Home Depot) if possible, but would entertain the idea of purchasing the adhesive online if freight charges would not make this cost-prohibitive. The first thing that came to mind was Weldwood's DAP Contact Cement, although I'm not sure if that would be suitable. To be truthful, I'm not sure if Kydex is the most suitable material for this purpose, but the ability to mold this material with heat if necessary is a big bonus.

Your advice is very much appreciated.

Thank you.
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Old Faithful Holsters
09-21-2012, 11:02 AM (This post was last modified: 09-21-2012 11:07 AM by Sam.)
Post: #2
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
First, welcome to the forum!

Kydex has a technical brief paper on this exact topic with lots of good information. Here is the link - http://www.kydex.com/uploads/files/kydex...061412.pdf

In short, Kydex is PVC based and glues that work especially well with PVC pipes should work with Kydex.

Again, welcome to the forum and keep up posted on your Kydex project because I'm very interested!
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09-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Post: #3
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
Here is the the technical briefs from the Kydex website about using adhesives to bond two pieces of Kydex together. http://www.kydex.com/Uploads/Files/KYDEX...061412.pdf Knifekits sells and adhesive for Kydex but it is very expensive and I do not have any experisence with it. http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=41_433 Hope this helps and good luck.

Mikey
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09-21-2012, 01:57 PM
Post: #4
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
I personally would skip the bonding process all together and just use .125 kydex. Its really rigid stuff!

Cody
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09-22-2012, 01:18 AM
Post: #5
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice. I should have noted, I've thoroughly looked over the technical briefs regarding recommended adhesives. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to locate the recommended ingredients in a solvent on a store shelf, and some of the more specific names are either prohibitively expensive, or not obtainable locally.

It appears that PVC would be a good alternative, but it is noted on the technical brief for bonding Kydex to Kydex that PVC should only be used for cosmetic bonding, not structural. I am concerned that the two layers may come apart should they be hit by a large rock. Is this a legitimate concern?

I've looked at .125" Kydex, but knifekits.com is sold out of .125" Kydex sheets, and I can gain additional thickness (and theoretically, additional strength and shatter resistance) using two layers of .08" Kydex for only a marginally higher price. Is there anywhere else that I can find .125" Kydex for a reasonable price?

I have recently been considering alternate materials. Hanging out on some of the WRX boards, I've noticed that some of them simply go to truck stores and purchase semi truck flaps, which are thick, rigid, and inexpensive. That is, inexpensive compared to Kydex. If I cannot find an inexpensive and common adhesive, I may have to find a different material.
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09-22-2012, 02:06 AM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2012 02:22 AM by Sam.)
Post: #6
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
I think if you're developing anything for the exterior of a vehicle, then I would say you have a legitimate concern due to potential injuries and vehicle damage. Kydex will disclose that using any adhesive for structural uses should never be considered 100% safe to limit liability.

Have you considered the possibility of adding screws to the Kydex around the edges in addition to the bonding material?

I would also consider just buying 0.125 thick Kydex. How big of a Kydex sheet do you need, and what is your budget? Interstate Plastics sells Kydex in thickness of 0.125, 0.187, and 0.250 as well in custom sizes as well. http://www.interstateplastics.com/Calcut...YDB0T1.php

There are several variables that have to be considered when you're taking two pieces of Kydex together and add an adhesive in-between. Prepping the materials (adding chemicals, if they're clean, etc.), the chemicals used, the amount of pressure used (too much vs. too little), time (prepping, pressure, letting it dry), and the environment (temp, humidity, etc) will affect the outcome.

PVC bonding material can work good, but most PVC bonding material has tetrahydrofuran (TFT). From my limited understanding TFT won't go lower than 6 Degrees Fahrenheit. So, that is something you have to consider. Again, from my limited understanding tetrahydrofuran is that it should hypothetically bond the two materials together and make them as one. Again, the results would vary due to the previous stated reasons (prepping, chemicals, pressure, time, and environment).

It sounds like you're in a somewhat limited area and if you're not able to buy. If I were you, I would call the nearest local plumbing shop, or plumber and ask them if they know of a material that will hold it's bond to PVC under very cold conditions. If they have the material, ask to buy it from them. Explain what you're doing and see if they have input. If you're able to buy Kydex online, you should be able to buy PVC bonding material for under $10, but you run the risk of it not working.

I'll try to ask a friend who's a chemist, but it may be a couple of weeks before I see him again. He's pretty busy since he started his MBA program. As a side note - he loves chemistry so much that he help me make artificial human sweat to test out leather for gun holsters.
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09-22-2012, 02:25 AM
Post: #7
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
(09-22-2012 02:06 AM)Sam Wrote:  I think if you're developing anything for the exterior of a vehicle, then I would say you have a legitimate concern due to potential injuries and vehicle damage. Kydex will disclose that using any adhesive for structural uses should never be considered 100% safe to limit liability.

Have you considered the possibility of adding screws to the Kydex around the edges in addition to the bonding material?

I would also consider just buying 0.125 thick Kydex. How big of a Kydex sheet do you need, and what is your budget? Interstate Plastics sells Kydex in thickness of 0.125, 0.187, and 0.250 as well in custom sizes as well. http://www.interstateplastics.com/Calcut...YDB0T1.php

There are several variables that have to be considered when you're taking two pieces of Kydex together and add an adhesive in-between. Prepping the materials (adding chemicals, if they're clean, etc.), the chemicals used, the amount of pressure used (too much vs. too little), time (prepping, pressure, letting it dry), and the environment (temp, humidity, etc) will affect the outcome.

PVC bonding material can work good, but most PVC bonding material has tetrahydrofuran (TFT). From my limited understanding TFT won't go lower than 6 Degrees Fahrenheit. So, that is something you have to consider.

It sounds like you're in a somewhat limited area and if you're not able to buy. If I were you, I would call the nearest local plumbing shop, or plumber and ask them if they know of a material that will hold it's bond to PVC under very cold conditions. If they have the material, ask to buy it from them. Explain what you're doing and see if they have input.

I'll try to ask a friend who's a chemist, but it may be a couple of weeks before I see him again. He's pretty busy since he started his MBA program. As a side note - he loves chemistry so much that he help me make artificial human sweat to test out leather for gun holsters.

Thanks for the input.

I'm not too concerned about the safety aspect of it. Both pieces will be screwed into the fenderwell of the car together. My primary concern is that of the material splitting apart due to the adhesive not holding the pieces together. These would need to last long-term (figure 5-10 years service life). I'm located in the Chicago area.

If TFT doesn't go under 6 degrees F, that may be an issue. Is that a temperature after cure time? We've had temperatures down to the negative teens Fahrenheit in some winters at night, and temperatures as high as 105 with high humidity during the summer, so these would need to be able to last.

If I can find .125" thick Kydex at a reasonable price, this may not be an issue at all, but it also wouldn't be a challenge, and who doesn't like a good challenge?
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Old Faithful Holsters
09-22-2012, 02:37 AM
Post: #8
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
Check with Danny at Index Fasteners about .125 Kydex. He is a link to a post I did last night. Tell him I sent you.http://www.kydexforum.com/thread-6410.html

Mikey
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09-22-2012, 02:40 AM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2012 02:41 AM by Sam.)
Post: #9
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
(09-22-2012 02:25 AM)XtremeRevolution Wrote:  Thanks for the input.

I'm not too concerned about the safety aspect of it. Both pieces will be screwed into the fenderwell of the car together. My primary concern is that of the material splitting apart due to the adhesive not holding the pieces together. These would need to last long-term (figure 5-10 years service life). I'm located in the Chicago area.

If you're located in the Chicago area, call your local plastics companies. Lots of plastics companies will sell by Kydex the sheet. If that doesn't work out, check out that link I gave you and order it online from Interstate Plastics as they have sheets thicker than 0.125".

(09-22-2012 02:25 AM)XtremeRevolution Wrote:  If TFT doesn't go under 6 degrees F, that may be an issue. Is that a temperature after cure time? We've had temperatures down to the negative teens Fahrenheit in some winters at night, and temperatures as high as 105 with high humidity during the summer, so these would need to be able to last.

I don't know if that is limited to cure time, or the exposure limit. Again, with my limited knowledge it should hypothetically take two pieces and bond them together as one piece. So, it shouldn't matter that much unless the chemical bonding process leaves a secondary chemical behind that is venerable to cracking under extreme temperatures.

Believe me, I know how cold it gets in Chicago. My brother lives in Campaign and I'm making it a priority to visit him before winter hits.

(09-22-2012 02:25 AM)XtremeRevolution Wrote:  If I can find .125" thick Kydex at a reasonable price, this may not be an issue at all, but it also wouldn't be a challenge, and who doesn't like a good challenge?

Again, check out the link in my previous post. You can practically get it in any size and thickness you want. You might want to check out your local plastics companies because they may be able to save you money by not charging you shipping.
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09-22-2012, 02:56 AM
Post: #10
RE: Adhesive for bonding Kydex
I had actually overlooked Interstate Plastics during my research before. I didn't realize that their product is significantly larger, and that one could get eight 12x12 pieces out of that sheet.

Now, I just need to decide how much of a benefit there is to using two layers glued together over just using one thicker layer. For sheer simplicity, I'm tempted to just use the thicker layer.
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